It is hard to get a handle on what the legacy of Joe Torre will be when he retires from the game.
Pre-Yankees- Torre began his managerial career in the National League; with the Mets for five seasons, the Braves for three, and the Cards for six. His overall record was 894-1003 (109 games below .500) His highest win total was 89, and high higest loss total was 99.
With the Yankees- Torre’s history with the Yankees is well documented. 4 world series victories, 6 AL Championships, 12 straight playoff appearances, 10 Division championships, 4 100 win seasons, and no fewer than 92 wins in any season.
Torre was incredibly successful as a manager, and his public demeanor endeared him to fans in New York. Now comes the tricky part. Joe Torre was the manager of the Yankees while they continually led off of baseball in payroll, and trotted out teams with high-profile players at nearly every position. There was seemingly no free agent beyond their grasp. However, Torre failed to win a World Series after 2000, and lost twice in that time. He also oversaw a team that experienced an unprecedented comeback by the Red Sox in 2004 after having led in the ALCS 3-0. His final three years as Yankee manager featured three consecutive first-round exits from the playoffs, and 2007 marked the first time since 1997 where a team other than the Yankees won the AL East.
So what does this all mean?
Context- Tampa Bay is currently a win away from the World Series, and they are opposing the Boston Red Sox in the ALCS. Certainly the AL East can be considered the toughest division in baseball. The Yankees were on top for so long that teams designed to be the best were also, in part, designed to beat the Yankees.
Where does Torre rank among great Yankee managers?
- Miller Huggins won three World Series with the Ruth/Gehrig Yankees, and another 3 pennants.
- Joe McCarthy won 7 World Series spanning the Ruth and Joe Dimaggio eras, with an additional pennant.
- Casey Stengel won 7 as well, spanning Dimaggio and Mantle, with an additional 3 pennants.
- Raplh Houk won two World Series and a pennant in his first three years (though these could easily have been Stengel’s), and had a team win 109 games.
- Billy Martin won 2 World Series and a pennant.
- Torre won 4 World Series and 2 additional pennants.
So, Torre won the third most world Series for the Yankees as their manager, and is tied for thirs in combined WS/AL Championships. He may be unfairly judged in my eyes because, while no manager from another team matched his success during his time with the Yankees, there have been managers of the Yankees who have had much more success. It can also be argued that, due to the spending of Steinbrenner, Torre had the biggest player advantage of any manager of his time, or any Yankee manager in the team’s history.
Post-Yankees- Joe Torre is now the manager of the Los Angeles Dodgers, who were just knocked out of the playoffs 4-1 by the Phillies. Torre’s team won the NL West, the worst division in baseball (the AL West was saved by the Angels), and arguably one of the worst divisions in baseball in a while. He won 84 games with the Dodgers (4 fewer than the Yankees won in 2008) which was his lowest full-season win total since he won 83 with the Cards in 1992. With their win total, the Dodgers would have finished:
- 4th in the NL East
- 5th in the NL Central
- 5th in the AL East
- 3rd in the AL Central
- 2nd in the AL West (16 GB)
Now Torre was in his first year with a new team, and did get them to the NLCS. He beat a Cubs team that was favored by many to win it all. But, Torre also benefitted from the arrival and subsequent tear that Manny Ramirez went on when he arrived in LA. Also, I have now been hearing comments, correctly attributed to Torre or not, about how “he is having fun managing now”, and “it is nice to manage this way”, essentially knocking his end of his time with the Yankees. Torre left the Yankees after turning down an incentives-laden contract offer which would have reduced his base salary, but rewarded him handosmely for benchmarks like playoffs, pennant, and World Series.
I am not sure what Torre’s lasting legacy will be. For now, I suppose I will go with the “remember the good times” approach, because they sure were some good times.
