As the Yankees closed out Game 6 last night with a victory over the Angels, and headed to their first World Series since 2003, I went over to Facebook to enjoy the pennant win with other Yankee fans.
Many of the comments I found were expected; die-hards expressing excitement and relief, bandwagon-jumpers crowing, and Phillies fans throwing down the gauntlet. However, one trend began to emerge which I must admit caught me a bit off-guard. Friends who are Met fans began declaring their intention to support….the Phillies?
Now I can understand Met fans finding this series a bit distasteful. It’s your main divisional rival against the team you fight for the hearts of the city faithful. I know I wouldn’t like it if the Red Sox played the Mets in the World Series. Still, if a rematch of the 1986 Series were to occur, the idea of rooting for Boston would not cross my mind. Not for a second.
The immediate support for the Phillies, and the adamant “eff you” attitude displayed toward any Yankee fan who had the temerity to question this decision, was startling. The asinine comparisons to Sophie’s Choice, are even worse. Sure Met fans, deciding who to cheer for in a world series between two teams you dont like is JUST like a woman choosing which child will live and which will die in a concentration camp during the Holocaust. Nice job, very rational. Even if this was done tounge-in-cheek, it is beyond stupid to compare the two. Despite the less-serious implications of the phrase “Sophie’s Choice” as it has come to be used in the common parlance, this is a serious misapplication of the term.
I am struggling to figure a reason why, beyond spite, bitterness, and envy, an New Yorker would back the Phillies. So lets outline some possibilities:
1) You like NL Baseball- So you are a Met fan first, but after that you are a fan of the game “the way it was meant to be played”. You enjoy the inferior product the NL offers up as a whole, and think the DH is a travesty. If it comes down to it, the NL representative should be the team to win it all.
2) You would rather hear from Phillies fans than Met fans-You know more Yankees fans. You live near them, you work with them, you see them around the city. We will gloat and strut after winning the World Series, and you will have to watch it happen. We will cast off our recent post season failures, and reassume our place on top of the mountain. This will bother you to no end. You will decide to root for a team who repeatedly denies you a spot in the playoffs, who wins where you fail, whose fans say worse things to you than any Yankee fan. This will be your team of choice. Not a team whose fans most likely make up many of your friends and family, no, a team whose city and fans laugh at you and your mediocrity.
3) You don’t like the Yankees way of operating- Oh wait, the Mets spend like crazy too, and would have done more if they hadn’t been rocked by the Madoff scheme. Never mind then, thats just a littler pot calling a bigger kettle black.
But as I continued to think on the subject, I realized something….good. You are rooting for the Phillies? Good. We never counted on the support of Met fans, and we won’t count on it now. We will gladly throw the support of a karma-striken, sad-sack, bitter and demoralized group of fans behind Philadelphia. I am not sure we would even want to be associated with a bunch of fans who create a baseless and unwarranted air of superiority around themselves and their choke-job of a team, fans who can’t be happy for their friends. We’d be pulling for you against the Red Sox, but maybe you don’t have that kind of rivalry with Philly. You haven’t given us a chance to see if its true, but I wager the Yankee fans in this city would pull for the Mets vs anyone AL. Maybe if one day they stop gagging away their playoff chances we will see. But for now, enjoy watching the Phillies lose, and when they do, show Phillie fans how to deal with failure. It’s what you are good at….
PS – To Met fans on our side I say “Welcome aboard”, there’s plenty of room on the bandwagon and we’re happy to have fellow New Yorkers.
October 26, 2009 at 1:36 pm |
I’m rooting for the Phillies, without pause. First, I am a fan of the senior circuit. So, I generally root for the NL teams. I suspect that guys your age don’t truly appreciate the old NL/AL rivalry. Remember when Guilani said he was rooting for the Red Sox in the WS and the NY Post called him a “traitor”? His response was that he is an AL Fan. Second, I have to deal with pain in the ass, obnoxious Yankee “fans” every day. I rarely encounter any Phillies fans. Third, and as you know, I despise the Yanks and everything about them and everything they represent, whereas I have actually grown to respect the Phillies. The only Phillies I hate are that little punk Shane Victorino (the Flying D-Bag) and the now irrelevant wife-beater, Brett Myers. Hamels is a bit of a douche too. But I love Pedro, and I respect Werth, Howard, Utley, Ibanez and Rollins. I hate practically every Yankee not named Mariano.
Teams are pretty evenly-matched, except the Phils’ BP sucks. Yanks in six.
October 26, 2009 at 2:10 pm |
Yankees starting pitching is better. Pedro’s time-machine act will fall flat, and the Yankees are more than capable of winning the long-ball game with Philly. The Yankees just finished with a tougher team than any the Phillies faced. The Dodgers looked pretty awful.
As for your rooting interest, I still don’t get it. The Phillies and their fans hate the Mets and theirs. Why root for them? You gonna pull for the Cowboys over the Jets in a SB?
October 26, 2009 at 3:16 pm |
Just as Sox fans should cheer for the Phillies (and not simply for the obvious reasons) Mets fans should cheer for the Yanks.
Let me outline it from my angle. Sox fans should cheer for the Phillies simply because beyond the rivalry, it is better for the Sox that the Phillies win. If the Yankees lose the series, there is a high likely hood that the Steinbrenners will do something to reconstruct the team. In the face of failure, the Stienbrenners might part ways with the like of Damon (though they’d be hard pressed to after last night) or Matsui. There is even a possibility that, if he manages the series like he managed the ALCS and they lose, Girardi’s head would be on the block.
This would be good for the Red Sox, on a number of levels, if a divisional opponent is weakened or has to rebuild at all, this is a huge help. This would be true if it were the rays, jays, or orioles.
The same situation is analogous for Mets fans. Its better for them that the Philies lose, for the reasons I list above.
So Mets fans, if you are real die hard Mets fans, cheer for the Yankees, it is what is best for your team. As a Sox fan, however, GO PHILLIES!!!
October 26, 2009 at 3:18 pm |
No. I like the Jets. I despise the Yankees. The Yankees are the Cowboys of baseball. Same tired act, same lame-ass fans seeking affirmation through sports. Hell, they are even business partners now.
There is no real rivalry between the Mets and the Phils. 07 and 08 were a bit of an aberration. When I think rivals, I still think Cards and Cubs (though those feelings have abated), and then the Braves. Seriously, I have no bad feelings about the Phillies. And I almost always root NL (not last year b/c I rooted for the small-market Rays), and I generally root NFC in the Super Bowl. I absolutely despise the Eagles, but I rooted for them a couple of years ago in the SB because they were representing the NFC East. The leagues meant something before free agency (when players stayed on one or two teams their entire careers) and inter-league play, and they still mean something to an old codger like me.
Go Phillies!!!
And the Angels looked pretty awful as well. Terrible base-running, poor situational hitting and a shallow bullpen. These are the two best teams playing in the WS. I just wish the Angels could have pushed you to seven so CC couldn’t go in gam e1. As for starting pitching, you have the worst of the starters on the two teams hands-down — Mr. Chad “6 ERA in Petco Park” Gaudin. That may be an equalizer. But the Phillies’ pen sucks.
October 26, 2009 at 3:51 pm |
Gaudin won’t pitch, cc is on fire and will outpitch Lee, Burnett was a lot better than he seemed, and Pettite is rolling. Pedro can’t beat a good AL lineup and Hamels looks shaky.
October 27, 2009 at 8:59 am |
You need a fourth starter for game five. So, Gaudin will pitch, unless there is a sweep.
October 27, 2009 at 9:37 am |
Heyman is reporting that they are considering short rest all around.
October 27, 2009 at 10:59 am |
Burnett on three days? That might be interesting. But Gaudin starting a world series game would be a joke.
October 27, 2009 at 12:38 pm |
Just watch what happens to Pedro. A solid 4 innings followed by a spectacular collapse.
October 27, 2009 at 2:38 pm |
You’re probably right, but it would a lot of fun to watch him shut your asses out.
October 27, 2009 at 2:59 pm |
Whats up with the G Men?
October 27, 2009 at 4:37 pm |
Eli reverting to form. Not a single safety on the roster capable of covering a wide receiver. Offensive coordinator unwilling to show patience with running game. Quarterback unable to consistently complete passes against 8 man fronts. Osi not back in form.
October 28, 2009 at 11:00 am |
Now that CC and A-Roid are considered great clutch performers after being considered chokers for years, are you starting to see the light regarding this simple-minded nonsense?
It’s all about sample size. Give a great player enough opportunities and his greatness will be shown. Give a scrub enough at bats, and his suckiness will be shown. Any scrub can get hot at the right time and any stud can slump at the wrong time. But does not make them either “clutch” or a “choker.”
October 28, 2009 at 12:08 pm |
Lots of things wrong with that
CC wasnt considered a choker for years unless you are talking 2 years.
Neither are considered great clutch perfomers currently, they are considered to be having great post seasons.
Gotta be honest with you, all that matters to me now is the next several games. We can pick up the semantics in the off season, but unless its about the Series games, its off my radar.
So as someone who has to watch the Phillies kick his team’s ass all year, what do you think the key to beating them is?
October 28, 2009 at 1:05 pm |
Keep it close and get to the bullpen. And that’s your forte. And never let Howard face a righty in a big spot. He absolutely cannot hit a lefty with a slider. If CC, Coke, et. al. throw him a fastball over the plate, they should be fined. He’ll chase a lefty’s slider off the plate every time.
This has the potential to be a real good series( unless the Phillies’ pitching implodes). I’m actually looking forward to it.
Breakdown by position:
c: Yanks better offensively, Phils better defensively
1b: Yanks better defensively, Phils better offensively
2b: Phils better
ss: Even offensively, Phils better defensively
3b: Yanks much better offensively, Phils better defensively.
lf: Yanks better offensively, Phils better defensively (assuming Francisco)
cf: Phils better
rf: Phils better
dh: Phils better (assuming Ibanez)
Starting pitching: Edge Yanks (but not as big as you think because Yanks have no 4th starter)
Bullpen: Edge Yanks
October 28, 2009 at 2:19 pm |
Here’s my breakdown, similarly:
C: 22 HR 81 RBI .885 OPS is MUCH better than 9 HR 43 RBI and .780 OPS and a much greater gulf than the difference in defense.
1B: Both are game changers, Howard on offense, Tex with the glove. I dont know if you watched all the Yankee games, but Tex was an absolute lifesaver countless times, even in the loss where he and Mo killed the bases loaded, no outs. Howard’s ceiling may be slightly higher than Tex with the stick, but Tex doesn’t have the lefty-slider achillies as a switch hitter
2B: I’m gonna need you to do better than “Phils better”. You are undervaluing Cano. If you put him on the Mets and changed his name to Seamus O’Hagan, you’d be penciling him in for Cooperstown. Why is Utley and his throwing problems so clear-cut better.
SS: Pull your head out and take a breath. Rollins is a .250 reg season hitter, and a .245 playoff so far. Jeter is .334 reg season, .330 playoffs. Stop it, its not even and you look foolish saying so.
3B- Agree, but with similar provisions as catcher.
LF- agree, I’ve heard Ibanez as DH. Curious that they wouldn’t roll the dice with him in left, since the Yankees are.
CF: Not sure both are pretty hot right now, and Melky gives you similar production in the 8-9 hole that Victo gives you in the 2.
RF: Agree, Werth is rolling
DH: Agree, assuming Ibanez and Matsui.
Bench: Yankees
SP:Yankees, and by as much as I think
RP: Yankees
closer: HUGE advantage. I do not fear Lidge one iota. House of cards that guy.
Bulletin Board: Rollins nonsense about Phils in 5. What an ass.
October 28, 2009 at 2:24 pm |
“6. The idea that there’s no such thing as a clutch player makes no sense when Derek Jeter is considered as an October player.
That his career OPS in the postseason is higher than the regular season (.858 to .847) is amazing, considering hitters only see the best pitchers on the best teams in the worst conditions. “The regular season and the postseason are two different things,” Jeter said. “People bear down in the postseason. On 3 and 0 in the regular season the pitcher might just lay one in there. But not in the postseason.” Better than anyone in this era, he has figured out how to navigate October (and November).
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jon_heyman/10/27/daily.scoop.wednesday/index.html?eref=sihp#ixzz0VGCBBUNG “
October 28, 2009 at 2:45 pm |
I gave Rollins and Jeter even offensively for two reasons: (1) I did not base my opinion on this year’s stats alone but considered the last couple of years as well — Rollins had a subpar season, but he’s still a stud in his prime; and (2) Rollins has a lot more power and speed and is more of a run producer. He had more rbi this year (despite have a subpar season) while batting behind Ruiz and a pitcher than Jeter batting behind Cano and Melky.
Phils going with Francisco is smart with CC on mound because it improves their defense and team speed, and I like his chances against CC more than Fatt Stairs’, who is their probable DH if Ibanez plays left. I suspect Stairs will DH against Burnett with Ibanez in left, and Francisco will play against CC and Pettitte with Ibanez at DH.
Cano had a great year, but Utley is one of the best second basemen I have ever seen. Get real. It ain’t even close there. And Utley would hit 45 homers at YS pulling inside fastballs over the short porch.
The Flying D-Bag is a much better player than Melkey, and he covers more ground in the outfield as well. Again, not even close.
Werth is not just “rolling”, he’s a stud. The guy can beat you in so many ways — glove, arms, bat and legs.
As for catcher, Posada might not catch two games. Ruiz is better all around than Molina. So, the difference is not quite that extreme when you account for Molina’s playing time.
October 28, 2009 at 2:48 pm |
Victorino scored 40 more runs than Melkey and had an OPS 50 points higher.
October 28, 2009 at 2:57 pm |
As for this “clutch” bullshit and “bearing down” nonsense, don’t you then have to adjust your thinking to account for the alleged “chokers” who can’t handle October pressure and thus serve up meatballs to the hitters?
October 28, 2009 at 3:00 pm |
GTFOH- Victo scored 40 more runs in the 2 hole. How is that comprable to a 8 hitter? He was protected by the 9 hitter, not Ryan Howard. Come on man.
Utley cant make throws recently. He has the Yips. Thats a problem.
As for Rollins, we are not playing the last couple of years worth of world series, we are playing today, using today’s players, playing as they are right now.
And the Phillies stats have come against for the most part crappy NL pitching. You aren’t pulling Halladay or Greinke or King Felix or Beckett in the 6th or 7th because they are batting with 2 men on, down 3 runs. NL pitchers are gone in that situation.
The Phillies have been sitting around for a week, and may not play today. They blew out an overrated Dodgers team. The Yankees finished 3 days ago, and had to battle a tough Angels team. Who do you think is more ready to play baseball tonight/tomorrow?
October 28, 2009 at 3:19 pm |
You said they had similar production. Runs are production, correct? But what about the OPS difference. And didn’t Melky bat 9th most of the year? Are you saying Jeter is poor protection? When Melky batted 8th, who was the ninth hitter? When navigating through that lineup, the last thing any pitcher wants to do is throw Melky Cabrera anything other than a strike. He’s a guy you have to get out. He is probably the most “protected” player in baseball — a scrub in a great lineup. And did ever hit a homer outside of the McStadium?
Stats from the last couple of years are as indicative of the quality of the player as are stats from this year. We’re not talking about a guy who is past his prime. And he does have more power and speed than Jeter.
If Pujols has a shitty year next year but the Cards make the playoffs, you don’t worry about his bat in the playoffs because past performance is irrelevant?
Dodgers are overrated, but they probably had the best bullpen of all playoff teams, and the Phillies pounded them. As for who is more ready to play — who the hell knows?
October 28, 2009 at 3:34 pm |
Back to Rollins/Jeter — 77 rbi with Pedro Feliz, Carlos Ruiz and the pitcher batting 1, 2, 3 in front of you pretty impressive. 68 rbi with Cano, Swisher and Melky Cabrera in front of you, not so impressive. Disagree?
October 29, 2009 at 8:23 am |
“2B: I’m gonna need you to do better than “Phils better”. You are undervaluing Cano. ”
Utley with two homers off of CC. Cano dogs it out of the box and thus allows Rollins to dupe Matsui into a double play, and then makes one of his trademark lackluster efforts at fielding Ibanez’s ball in the hole. These players not in the same class — not even close. And no matter what Cano hits, he’s still a dog, and I wouldn’t want him on my team. His act is tired.
October 29, 2009 at 8:32 am |
Not really in a position to talk about who you wouldn’t want on your team, your peers are the Pirates and Padres and Indians and Nats.
October 29, 2009 at 8:45 am |
But what does that have to do about last night and that dog you have at second? Padres? Isn’t that the team which was too good to keep your 4th starter on its roster?
“And Utley would hit 45 homers at YS pulling inside fastballs over the short porch.” Pretty prescient.
Tonight promises to be interesting with Pedro v. Burnett.
Q: Why didn’t Genius Joe bring in Coke to face Ibanez after going lefty/righty all inning long?
October 29, 2009 at 9:24 am |
Yes, he’s leapfrogged all Yankee hitters and is now the greatest player to ever play in the stadium. Damon and Matsui are not much more likely barometers than 45 homers. Yup.
Pedro will be destroyed tonight unless the umps are feeling 1995 Atlanta Bravesy
October 29, 2009 at 9:35 am |
Damon and Matsui are nowhere near as good as Chase Utley.
October 29, 2009 at 9:49 am |
Yes nowhere near. A comparison of Matsui and Utley as hitters in their 7 seasons in the bigs certainly bears this assertion out. What was I thinking?
October 29, 2009 at 9:53 am |
Utley’s career OPS is 50 points higher — 902 to 852. Utley has had an OPS of over .900 5 years in a row (and counting). Matsui has done that once in his entire career. Utley has hit 30 homers 3x. Matsui once, as a lefty at YS.
Yankee fans never cease to amaze me in their delusions.
October 29, 2009 at 9:59 am |
And Damon’s career OPS is 108 points lower than Utley’s, and Damon has never hit more than 24 homeruns.
I know its hard to believe, but there are some pretty good ballplayers outside of the Bronx.
October 29, 2009 at 10:18 am |
Since you are obviously only talking to me, I’m the target of the “delusions” comment, the “simple minded” comment…etc. That seems to transform things from a fun back and forth to veiled insults. Its not even in the the light-hearted “get your head out of your ass” vein. I’m all for busting balls, but when it starts to seem genuine then it moves into the realm of insulting.
I guess im just an ignorant Yankee fan, blinded by my stupid devotion to players who are merely products of a hype machine and statistically far inferior to others in the league. I must not have looked at the stats, because clearly I missed the ones that matter, and only focused on the BS ones. Maybe I should try basketball, hockey, or some other place where someone of my middling comprehension can hope to speak with any sort of authority.
October 29, 2009 at 11:51 am |
Lighten up. No offense intended. A little sensitive becuase you are down 1-0?
But all Yankee fans believe that all Yankee players are better than all others. It is ingrained in the Yankee fan DNA. And you are apparently afflicted as well since you question whether Chase Utley is better than Cano, Matsui and Damon. Not only does Utley put up better numbers, but he is a pain in the ass, hard-nosed, grinder who is even better than his numbers. He battles pitchers like few others (as u saw with his first homer coming on the 9th pitch of his AB), hustles, and plays good defense. He is truly “Jeterian” in his intangibles.
As a baseball fan, I’m really looking forward to seeing if Pedro has enough left in his tank for one more big game, against his former rival, in his newly adopted home of NY. It would be incredible if he could go out and spin a gem tonight. I wanted the Mets to let Ollie walk last year and to bring back Pedro and to sign Wolf. I figured that when a guy like Pedro says he’s not done, you listen to him. We’ll see tonight.
October 29, 2009 at 3:46 pm |
Swisher benched for Hairston. Don’t like the move. Would have played Gardner instead.
October 29, 2009 at 10:30 pm |
Nice go ahead HR by Utley…..wait, was that Matsui?
October 30, 2009 at 10:00 am |
Nice piece of hitting. Not a bad pitch at all. Looking forward to Sunday — Giants/Eagles, Vikings/Pack, Yanks/Phils. Will definately be tapping a pony keg for that day.
October 30, 2009 at 10:17 am |
pumped for the first and last, want to see Favre knocked out by Jarred Allen after completing 10 passes to Percy Harvin for 160 and 3 TD (fantasy guy)
October 30, 2009 at 10:45 am |
Vikes/Pack in GB is a good game, with or without Favre. We usually get stuck with Jets/Bills, so lets count our blessings.
October 30, 2009 at 10:45 am |
And nice umpiring last night. Screwed the Yanks in the 7th, and the Phils in the 8th. Something needs to be done.
October 30, 2009 at 10:52 am |
I don’t know why an NFL style 1 or 2 challenges each wouldnt work.
October 30, 2009 at 10:53 am |
Except where do you put a runner who is in motion?
October 30, 2009 at 1:34 pm |
Why not have 2 or 3 three umpires in the booth watching the game with network feeds who, when in unanimous agreement, can call down to the field and tell the umps they were wrong? No attendant delays from challenges and assholes walking off the field to view replays somewhere like in the NFL or on homeruns.
Seriously, if you and I were watching the game together in the press box with access to all replays, how long would it have taken for us to call down to the field and say “Howard didn’t catch the ball, bases loaded, 1 out, Tex up”, or “Utley safe at first, 1st and 3rd, 2 outs, Howard up”?
October 30, 2009 at 2:26 pm |
need the challenge system. Otherwise, why not fix strike/ball calls with K-Zone. too much human judgment built into the game for full on replay.
October 30, 2009 at 2:38 pm |
I would just do force plays, whether balls were caught in the air or trapped, all plays at the plate, fair/foul flyballs (Mauer), and left too early plays (Swisher). No balls/strikes, and no tag plays other than at home.
November 3, 2009 at 11:12 am |
How do you like Chase Utley now?
November 3, 2009 at 11:20 am |
Very “clutch” GIDP in the top of the 9th.
November 3, 2009 at 11:41 am |
How is every Met team since I was 5 years old doing?
November 3, 2009 at 12:03 pm |
That’s when you were still a Met fan.
I predicted Yanks in six, but hoping Pedro can get this thing to seven. But who the hell closes for the Phils tomorrow if they have a 1 run lead going into the 9th? Let me re-phrase, who gets the loss for the Phils if they have a 1 run lead going into the 9th?
If you believe in “clutch”, you must concede that Captain GIDP “choked” last night. No?