Upon What I’ve Been Getting at with Jeter

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/preview10/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=5036408

In the article above, Jayson Stark takes a look at the “intangibles” that make certain baseball players winners. Not surprisingly, Derek Jeter is mentioned as one of the models of success.  Certain people don’t believe in ethereal ideas like “clutch” and “winner”, but I do. I think certain players are wired for success, both in critical moments, and overall.  And I am not alone.

Worth a read if you have a minute.

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44 Responses to “Upon What I’ve Been Getting at with Jeter”

  1. Sherm Says:

    Yeah, these guys are great on account of their grit and determination, rather than talent. Citing the likes of Jayson Stark will get you nowhere with me.

  2. Author Says:

    Its a combo dude. They are good because of talent, which lots of guys have. They are great because of the way they play, and how they approach the game. So many players and managers believe in intangibles, and for some reason you don’t. If an attorney tells me something about courtroom dynamics, I’m gonna have to go with them over my opinion based on watching a lot of Law and Order.

  3. Sherm Says:

    You’re right. I don’t believe in bullshit.

  4. Author Says:

    sure you do, see Mets playoff chances 2007-present :-P

    In all seriousness though, why are career baseball players, managers and scouts wrong about this? I know how much you follow baseball, but these people do baseball for a living. They are in the clubhouse, on the plane, at the hotel, in spring training. They all seem to believe in intangibles. in winners, in clutch players. People who dissect the game for statistical reasons to help explain things are missing out on a critical element of the game, which acutal players and participants seem to understand.

    Break down Mariano Rivera statistically, using all the egghead statistical matricies…etc. I bet he comes off as something other than the greatest closer ever. However, ask a player who has to face him, a manager who watches from the dugout…etc. The mental aspect of the game, the perception of players, and intangible and unquantifiable things matter.

  5. Sherm Says:

    But I do believe that Ollie Perez sucks.

    This is from Joe Pos last May:

    And finally, there were “intangibles.” Even as a kid, I loved the irony of Jimmy the Greek giving one team an edge in “intangibles.” To me, it was like a grownup version of “Cooties” — this girl has more cooties than that girl. But Jimmy would do it all right, and he would explain those intangibles too. He would say that this team was playing better so they had an edge in intangibles, or that team wasn’t very good on the road so they had a disadvantage in intangibles, and it was all quite enjoyable.

    As I got older, though, I started to realize that there is something troubling about intangibles … people tend to use them whenever they want to make a point that makes no tangible sense. I worked in a factory for a while, and there was this guy in there that everybody liked. He had a good sense of humor, and he always made sure to say hello to everyone, and he buttered up the boss, and he would always offer to buy the person next to him a can of Coke when he went to the break room. Good guy. But he didn’t do squat. I mean, he didn’t do ANYTHING. Trucks would come with boxes, and he was nowhere to be found. Barrels needed to be moved, and he was nowhere to be found. Then, you’d run into him, and he’d say he was doing something, and he’d tell you a joke and offer to buy you a Coke, and life went on. THAT guy had intangibles. He also was virtually worthless.

  6. Sherm Says:

    http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2010/03/25/heart-of-the-matter/#more-3241

    A timely blog entry from Pos.

  7. Author Says:

    Eggheads can’t put a number on what busting your ass down to first in a 10-1 game means to teammates.

    -Superstar A runs out a ground ball like his contract dpeneds on it in a meaningless game.
    -Average player B sees that and decides “Let me go get some more cage work after the game on hitting curves. If he is busting ass why shouldn’t I”.
    -Player B hits a curveball screaming down the line for a double two days later, which he ordinarily missed. This scares the pitcher off that pitch, and he tries to beat Superstar B with a fastball. HR, game over.

    There is nothing to quantify what the effort of Superstar A’s effort means. Compound it over the season, and how many more wins come out of something you can’t measure.

    Eggheads with their stats get sarcastic because there is something they dont get about baseball.

  8. Sherm Says:

    A lot of guys hustle. But the mythical “intangibles” allegedly encompasses much more than mere hustle.

    Like Erik’s singing?

  9. Author Says:

    Yes, his song rules.

  10. Sherm Says:

    Theresa wants to make sure you know its me busting your balls on her facebook page.

    Did you do your fantasy draft yet?

  11. Author Says:

    Tomorrow night. And yes, I recognized the jokes.

    Are you playing this year?

  12. Sherm Says:

    Absolutely. Seriously though — draft established stud hitters in the first 8 rounds — best hitter available each round — then start filling out your staff with the names I gave you, then chase upside late. Fail safe path to victory.

  13. Sherm Says:

    Matt Latos just named 5th starter for Padres. Big upside, although he is just a baby. Target him late as an example of chasing upside. Let some ass clown draft a middling middle-aged starter like Carl Pavano while you load your bench up with young guys with talent like Latos, Mutusz, and Travis Snider. If they pan out, you do well. If they don’t pan out, there are plenty of other Carl Pavano’s out there to pick up on waivers. And Jason Frasor named closer for BlueJays. Nice value pick there.

  14. Author Says:

    Only guy I will go early for is Mo, because I always do and I like having him on my team.

  15. Sherm Says:

    Hopefully not before round 6.

  16. Sherm Says:

    And so it begins. Murphy on the disabled list, out 2-6 weeks.

  17. Sherm Says:

    Posada in mid-season form defensively.

  18. Sherm Says:

    And David Wright in mid-season form. 2-run bomb to the opposite field.

  19. Sherm Says:

    Mets in first; Yanks in last. All is well in my world.

  20. Charlie Says:

    Wow, let’s just end the season now. Nobody is beating the Mets. 80 HR for Wright.

  21. Sherm Says:

    On pace for 162.

  22. Sherm Says:

    What’s the over/under for passed balls and mound visits tonight?

  23. Author Says:

    You mean for the defending World Series champs, right? They will probably have ironed out the kinks.

  24. Sherm Says:

    I doubt that.

    Watching that game Sunday night, I couldn’t help but think that you should have signed a veteran catcher instead of Johnson and made Posada the full-time DH and 5th place hitter. He’s just terrible defensively, and he’ll only get worse. But Victor Martinez might be nearly as bad.

  25. Sherm Says:

    Did us see the Mark Buerle play? Even better than Murphy’s play last year. Unbelievable.

  26. Charlie Says:

    Yeah, that was pretty spectacular.

    Starter, Aceves/robertson, Joba, Mo- 101 wins.

  27. Sherm Says:

    95 wins. Why didn’t Genius Joe pinch run for Posada after he led off with the double? Johnson saved his ass with that walk.

  28. Charlie Says:

    Yes, that fluke walk by Nick Johnson.

    Big start coming for your Maine man. Feels like a warm day for some Florida longballs.

  29. Sherm Says:

    Strawman argument. Who called the walk a fluke?

    Terrible managing not to get Posada out of there after leading off with a double and representing the go-ahead run. If you want to defend that stupidity, be my guest. Posada failed to advance to third on a single to left and didn’t score from second a throwing error to first with two outs. Did he want to keep Posada in for late inning defense? :) If they had lost that game, it would have been on genius joe. Goes to show how much more important talent on the field is than the manager in the dugout.

    Maine looked like crap last night. Fastball sitting at 90, with little command. He needs to be at 93-94 to be successful. I gotta hope that he just needs to build up arm strength. maybe I’ll say that over and over again while rubbing my red shoes together.

  30. Charlie Says:

    Now this is a manager:

  31. Sherm Says:

    Just because Manuel is an idiot, doesn’t mean that Girardi is not.

  32. Sherm Says:

    Did you see today’s Times article on A-Roid? Things could get interesting after all for the lying, cheating piece of filth.

  33. Charlie Says:

    Dude, “lying cheating piece of filth” is laying it on a bit thick. Its not like he punched your mom or stole your wallet.

    Girardi is fine with me until he costs us meaningful games. If we win the game, I’m not interested in the “That could have backfired” because the fact is that it didn’t. If the team blows an important game because of a Girardi error, then I’ll get on him.

  34. Sherm Says:

    He lied on national tv about steroid use while simultaneously putting down steroid users and claiming to be better than those guys, although he himself was a steroid user. He then lied about the author of the arod book last year on national tv. He hid his affiliation with the HGH doctor from the Yankees in breach of his contract. He then lied to the Yankees’ FO when they asked him this winter if had been treated by the hgh dr. And this Spring, he’s been lying about his alleged cooperation with the feds. He is a known liar and an admitted cheat. I just hope that he can follow the Yankee tradition of being a convicted felon as well. I understand the need to root for the guy b/c he’s on your team, but to deny that he is a lying POS is another matter.

    The point with Girardi is that results reflect the talent of the team more than the manager. They won that game despite him. Not running for Posada was retarded.

    And put a fork in Big Papi. The Sox’s lineup is not the good with a Crappy Papi. Their pitching is great, but their offense is barely better than average. And you need both to win that division.

  35. Sherm Says:

    By the way, first game tonight. Not in the mood for work. Just beer and baseball.

  36. Charlie Says:

    Ortiz was a juicer who was never as good without them.

    You are piling on Girardi for some strange reason. So the team basically succeeds despite him? Is that supposed to make me upset? Nervous? Again, until he costs the team games (or puts them in a position where there talent can’t overcome his decisions), I’m fine with his managing.

    A-Rod’s character, honesty, or questionable decisions do not change my appreciation for what he brings on the field. I like Tiger Woods as a golfer, and he’s a lying philanderer. I loved watching Jordan play and he’s a degenerate gambler, hypercompetitive and spiteful person.

    I’m not into sports because I hope that the good guys in life are playing well. If they do, more the better. I like seeing outstanding performances.

  37. Sherm Says:

    It’s not about you with Girardi, its about discussing baseball strategy and analyzing a manager’s moves. I just can’t understand why he didn’t pinch rum there. Obvious move. Especially since Cervalli is a better guy to have in the game late for defensive purposes. Cervelli can actually catch. Posada is terrible.

    Poor comparisons for A-Rod. I couldn’t care less if a guy cheats on his wife or gambles (which should be legal, to the extent its not already). But I do care if a guy cheats the sport while lying about it and hypocritically demeaning others for doing the same exact thing. A-Rod has done all of the above, but you’ll never hear me discuss his philandering. That was between him and and his wife, and no one in my opinion should judge a man or a woman for the state of their marriages. But taking steroids and lying about it is a whole other matter. That’s not a personal matter. That’s cheating the game we profess to love.

  38. Charlie Says:

    But its the second freaking game of the season. And it worked out. Questionable but not egregious.

    And we’ve been down the PED road, and I still say guys on speed are cheating the game we profess to love and its wrong to single out one group of cheaters while cheering on another, larger group of cheaters.

  39. Sherm Says:

    speed ain’t steroids, ain’t even close. u know that.

    I am psyched b/c the Mets put another Blue Smoke and Big Apple Brews in the upper deck on top of the jackie robinson rotunda right behind my seats. Gonna do some damage tonight.

  40. Charlie Says:

    McFaddens too i heard. Good day to watch John Niese get smashed around the park. This is like when I got to see Kei Igawa 2x Matt DeSalvo and Tyler Clippard with 4 of my 12 games a few years back.

  41. Charlie Says:

    Grand theft isnt murder, both are crimes, both perps are criminals. Should the police investigate only murder?

  42. Sherm Says:

    Murder and theft are hardly equivalent crimes. But anyway, I don’t what the deal is with McFaddens, but it seems like its being marketed like some kind of Hooter’s, which ain’t my thing.

    Niese will be a solid pitcher. Big kid, smooth delivery, decent velocity on his fastball which he cuts as well, and a great 12-6 curve. Reminds me a lot of Zito.

  43. Charlie Says:

    you are on prediction probation until Murphy becomes a stud hitter.

  44. Sherm Says:

    I never said Murphy would be a stud. But he’s much better than Jacobs, that’s for damn sure.

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